Masechet Chullin Daf 49
Jan. 15th, 2019 01:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seekingferretDaf 49
The Gemara begins by discussing needles found inside of organs, without any discovered evidence of a hole. Obviously if there's a hole found, there's no need to analyze the needle, but if you just find the needle, do you need to assume there was a hole caused by it, and where do you assume the hole was? If it's in the esophagus (i.e. the animal swallowed the needle), the animal's a treifa. If it's the trachea (i.e. it was inhaled), which requires a majority to be severed to be a treifa, the animal's kosher. But what if it's in a different organ, how do we assume it came into the body?
Basically you go by a principle of rova. Whatever the most likely path for the needle, you assume it followed that path and rule accordingly. If it was most likely to have passed through the esophagus, treifa. If it was most likely to have passed through the liver or trachea or another organ that needs more than a nikva, kosher. If there are a couple possible paths, one kosher, one treifa, probably you should be machmir, but there's support for the mekil position too.
After needles, Rav Ashi in the name of Rav Kahana considers the 'pit from a date' or the 'pit from an olive' found in the gallbladder. The Gemara assumes the pit of a date came from the liver and therefore did not puncture anything that would cause a treifa, but that the pit of an olive (Steinsaltz says because it can be pointy) would make you have concern that it came from elsewhere and punctured the gallbladder on its way in, even though you have no evidence of a puncture.
Rabbi Linzer points out that the pit of a date is probably similar to a gallstone. In other words, it didn't come from anywhere! It formed in the gallbladder, the whole reason this is a question is the Rabbis' misunderstanding of the biology. I don't know, it's hard to say.
Edit: I've been saying that a lot on recent pages, "I don't know, it's hard to say." I want to be clear that it's not because I'm hesitant to criticize the Rabbanim, though I largely am. It's because these little quickie posts I've been making don't convey anything near the information density of the Gemara. There's so much detail, so much context, so much history and conversation surrounding it... so much brainpower being marshalled... that it makes me feel small and foolish and therefore unwilling to just throw away any piece of it without giving it a lot more consideration than I'm giving it here.
The Gemara begins by discussing needles found inside of organs, without any discovered evidence of a hole. Obviously if there's a hole found, there's no need to analyze the needle, but if you just find the needle, do you need to assume there was a hole caused by it, and where do you assume the hole was? If it's in the esophagus (i.e. the animal swallowed the needle), the animal's a treifa. If it's the trachea (i.e. it was inhaled), which requires a majority to be severed to be a treifa, the animal's kosher. But what if it's in a different organ, how do we assume it came into the body?
Basically you go by a principle of rova. Whatever the most likely path for the needle, you assume it followed that path and rule accordingly. If it was most likely to have passed through the esophagus, treifa. If it was most likely to have passed through the liver or trachea or another organ that needs more than a nikva, kosher. If there are a couple possible paths, one kosher, one treifa, probably you should be machmir, but there's support for the mekil position too.
After needles, Rav Ashi in the name of Rav Kahana considers the 'pit from a date' or the 'pit from an olive' found in the gallbladder. The Gemara assumes the pit of a date came from the liver and therefore did not puncture anything that would cause a treifa, but that the pit of an olive (Steinsaltz says because it can be pointy) would make you have concern that it came from elsewhere and punctured the gallbladder on its way in, even though you have no evidence of a puncture.
Rabbi Linzer points out that the pit of a date is probably similar to a gallstone. In other words, it didn't come from anywhere! It formed in the gallbladder, the whole reason this is a question is the Rabbis' misunderstanding of the biology. I don't know, it's hard to say.
Edit: I've been saying that a lot on recent pages, "I don't know, it's hard to say." I want to be clear that it's not because I'm hesitant to criticize the Rabbanim, though I largely am. It's because these little quickie posts I've been making don't convey anything near the information density of the Gemara. There's so much detail, so much context, so much history and conversation surrounding it... so much brainpower being marshalled... that it makes me feel small and foolish and therefore unwilling to just throw away any piece of it without giving it a lot more consideration than I'm giving it here.
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Date: 2019-01-16 01:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-16 04:53 pm (UTC)