Masechet Chullin Daf 21
Dec. 18th, 2018 10:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seekingferretDaf 21
The Gemara continues in its discussion of Melika, even though that's kodshim and we're supposed to e talking about Chullin. I flipped a head a bit quickly and we'll be talking mostly about kodshim for at least the next few pages. '
Zeiri stated at the end of the Daf 20 amud beis that if you do melika on a bird and you sever its spine and the majority of the muscles surrounding the spine, it is a neveila. Apparently you need to sever the spine and either one or both of the simanim without cutting the meat.
The Gemara analyzes this statement for a while and compares it to a Mishna in Zevachim, but then it takes an interesting detour into looking at the case of a human whose spine has been severed but not the flesh around it. Is that person dead?
We struggle with this case to this day in medicine, and that in spite of the much better tools we have today. How do you distinguish a person in a coma with no chance of recovery from a person in a coma who has a chance of recovery? What is brain death, what is persistent vegetative state? And how do you do it when you don't have EEGs and EKGs and all sorts of scanning equipment available?
The Gemara looks at the case of the High Priest Eli, in the fourth chapter of the first book of Samuel. The Philistines have defeated Israel and killed Eli's sons and captured the Aron HaKodesh, and when Eli received this news, he falls off his chair, breaks his neck, and dies. The Gemara learns from this phrasing that he broke his neck but did not damage the meat around his neck. Thus since it established in Zeiri's case that for the bird to be considered dead and a neveilah, both the spine and the muscle around it need to have been damaged, the Gemara wonders why Eli was ruled dead. The answer given is that Eli was also old, and because of his frail state, he died from just the broken spine. But apparently from this it seems that in the case of an otherwise healthy person, the halacha is that if chas v'shalom they break their spine but not the muscle (but are otherwise showing some of the autonomous signs of life), we rule that they are still alive.
The Gemara continues in its discussion of Melika, even though that's kodshim and we're supposed to e talking about Chullin. I flipped a head a bit quickly and we'll be talking mostly about kodshim for at least the next few pages. '
Zeiri stated at the end of the Daf 20 amud beis that if you do melika on a bird and you sever its spine and the majority of the muscles surrounding the spine, it is a neveila. Apparently you need to sever the spine and either one or both of the simanim without cutting the meat.
The Gemara analyzes this statement for a while and compares it to a Mishna in Zevachim, but then it takes an interesting detour into looking at the case of a human whose spine has been severed but not the flesh around it. Is that person dead?
We struggle with this case to this day in medicine, and that in spite of the much better tools we have today. How do you distinguish a person in a coma with no chance of recovery from a person in a coma who has a chance of recovery? What is brain death, what is persistent vegetative state? And how do you do it when you don't have EEGs and EKGs and all sorts of scanning equipment available?
The Gemara looks at the case of the High Priest Eli, in the fourth chapter of the first book of Samuel. The Philistines have defeated Israel and killed Eli's sons and captured the Aron HaKodesh, and when Eli received this news, he falls off his chair, breaks his neck, and dies. The Gemara learns from this phrasing that he broke his neck but did not damage the meat around his neck. Thus since it established in Zeiri's case that for the bird to be considered dead and a neveilah, both the spine and the muscle around it need to have been damaged, the Gemara wonders why Eli was ruled dead. The answer given is that Eli was also old, and because of his frail state, he died from just the broken spine. But apparently from this it seems that in the case of an otherwise healthy person, the halacha is that if chas v'shalom they break their spine but not the muscle (but are otherwise showing some of the autonomous signs of life), we rule that they are still alive.