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[seekingferret]

cyborganize recently posted an amazing 10K word essay on the creation of their Wonder Woman vid "Transmission", which premiered last spring at wiscon.

I was thinking back to a post-VVC conversation with starlady last summer.

starlady: "One thing I've noticed is that the WisCon Vid Party has seemed to have more success drawing in a somewhat broader spectrum of vidders in recent years; it might be interesting to hear what, if anything, they've done to promote that, with an eye to getting people to support FanWorksCon."

seekingferret: "I'm not sure my impression matches yours there. I do think in the sense that Wiscon Vid Party is a place that some of the people alienated by VVC feel comfortable at, it has featured some voices who don't submit to VVC, and also Wiscon Vid Party has inspired several new vidders to try their hand, which is great [and the same is true of VVC, that nonvidders have gone to VVC and gotten inspired to become vidders.]. But I don't think it has drawn vidders from outside the sort of standard contemporary VVC vidder aesthetic, that I've seen, except inasmuch as Wiscon vids tend to default to a slightly more didactic/intellectual/SJy starting place."

I meant that in a particular way that spoke to my at the time current thinking about vid aesthetics. At VVC, winterevanesce had introduced many of us for the first time to the aesthetics of Instagram edits, which typically run less than thirty seconds, involve fast cuts, dramatic swoops and pans, obvious color adjustments, and complex overlays, and represented a wildly different approach to vidding. Wiscon vids, in contrast, look like VVC vids. For that matter, my 2018 Wiscon premiere "The Upload" and my 2018 VVC Premiere "Nightswimming" would have swapped places if not for VVC's 2018 rule against vids over 5 minutes long. I think the VVC audience would've appreciated "The Upload" and Wiscon's audience would have appreciated "Nightswimming".


But it strikes me that vids like "Transmission" and eruthros's "Straightening Up the House", which got its own 7.5K creation essay, are vids that in an essential way may reflect an emerging Wiscon aesthetic that is meaningfully different from VVC-style vids. These are vids that are created by vidders fluent in the VVC house style, but they have the DNA of academic research projects in them as well. Vids are always attractive to me because of the information density they're capable of conveying, but "Transmission" and "Straightening Up the House" intentionally throw more information at you than you can absorb, while making you aware that they are doing this. The kiloword creation essay is an essential part of the art. You can simply sit back and watch "Transmission" and enjoy it, but you do so with the full awareness that you are not seeing everything the vidder has to say. I feel like that stands in confrontational opposition to the idea of Vid as Essay, which is so often essential to understanding VVC vids.

I'd point to ghost_lingering's "Silent Fandoms" as a precursor to this style of vid, and in a slightly different manner scribe and fiercynn's "We Didn't Start the Fire", but I do think there's something to be said about both "Transmission" and "Straightening Up the House" appearing at Wiscon last year as heralding a potentially emerging trend that I am excited about. Of course this sort of vid is inherently labor intensive, it may be that this is not the sort of stylistic trend likely to pick up steam.

cyborganize calls "Transmission" a 'database vid'. Perhaps that's the right way to think about what's distinctive about this sort of vid, the lurking database behind it and the sense that it is itself a database.

Comments

[brainwane]

intentionally throw more information at you than you can absorb, while making you aware that they are doing this. The kiloword creation essay is an essential part of the art

the lurking database behind it and the sense that it is itself a database

Really useful articulations -- there are a lot of ambitious vids in the world, and it's interesting to think about this particular way that these vids are ambitious, as components of particular kinds of scholarly works. The vids are not comprehensive but they nod at the possibility of comprehensive coverage. And in comparison, there are precursors like giandujakiss's "Hourglass" which does clearly require and reflect a bunch of research, but which -- at least to me -- does not increase the information density to the same need-to-freeze-frame level.

[yourlibrarian]

Without having seen either set of vid shows, I find this discussion of the vid + essay interesting, because I could definitely see why you'd suggest it's academically oriented. In that sense, I'd think it's very definitely different than many typical YouTube vids which are largely about flash or melodrama or a recap style of story complete with a lot of dialogue.

[garrideb]

I've never been to VVC or any con besides WisCon with a thriving vid premiere show, so the idea that Transmission and Straightening Up the House have an element somewhat unique to WisCon premieres is interesting to me. I would also put brainwane's 2015 premiere Pipeline in the same category with those two vids.

Regarding the idea of WisCon being more inclusive of a variety of vids -- when I premiered my still-image based Carol Danvers vid at WisCon in 2012, it was only my second ever vid, and I'd only ever vidded with still images from comics at that point. WisCon specifically asked for premieres from any vidder -- from brand-new novice to experienced -- and that gave me the confidence to submit a premiere. On the other hand, I'd heard that VVC had a reputation for chewing up vids that were not of a certain standard or style. Many of my favorite vidders were VVC regulars, and I always had half a mind to go to VVC, but I doubt I would have ever submitted a premiere.

[seekingferret]

I would also put [personal profile] brainwane's 2015 premiere Pipeline in the same category with those two vids.

Yes, I think this is a good comparison, although in the case of "Pipeline" I think I have enough of the vid's database in my head that I didn't need the kiloword vidpost.

On the other hand, I'd heard that VVC had a reputation for chewing up vids that were not of a certain standard or style.

I was only at the last three VVCs, maybe things shifted over time, but that's not exactly how I experienced it. You could, first of all, just avoid Vid Review if you wanted and you'd only hear positive feedback on your vids. I found that you'd frequently encounter people who were very positive about pushing the envelope of vids in one on one private feedback interactions.

It was only in Vid Review where you'd ever encounter negative feedback, and Vid Review could sometimes be negative about vids that didn't conform to the VVC aesthetic, and there could also be a tendency to pile on, but also some some outside-the-norms vids got high praise in Vid Review precisely because they surprised people.

Overall, premiering vids at VVC was a very positive experience for me.

[garrideb]

Yes, I think this is a good comparison, although in the case of "Pipeline" I think I have enough of the vid's database in my head that I didn't need the kiloword vidpost.

That's fair! And that's how I feel about Straightening Up the House, because Marvel's obscure queer characters has long been an interest of mine (although I'll happily read the vidpost anyway, because... well, meta about Marvel's obscure queer characters!)

I'm glad you had a good experience with VVC. I'm sure if I'd gone I'd have enjoyed it too. And honestly, I like the idea of a Vid Review, and the idea of a room of people critiquing vids never bothered me. The reputation of a certain vid snobbery came more from the few con goers who would complain in LJ posts after the con about how there were too many [insert fandom or song style] vids, or the people who made the bingo cards that one year... stuff like that. But I know those were just a few loud people from an otherwise welcoming group.

[franzeska]

I've heard plenty of stories from plenty of people about feeling insecure or unwelcome at VVC. Sometimes, it seemed more like impostor syndrome and sometimes more like someone was being a jerk. I wouldn't say that VVC was universally welcoming or anything like that.

But what I would say is that things like the bingo cards or influential posts about the con's culture are from a decade ago, so the set of people going, the default styles, what music people liked, etc. had all changed somewhat by the end. The complaints I heard by the end were more like "I've heard of zero of these sources even looking at the entire premieres show" instead of "Why are their 800 Supernatural vids with mom on the ceiling?"

[garrideb]

That's true that those incidences were a decade or more ago. I know firsthand that a con's culture can change, and that it usually depends on who you meet and hang out with, anyway. No con is universally welcoming, but some make an effort to welcome in newbies, and I honestly don't know where VVC stood in that regard.

Pipeline

[brainwane]

I was thinking about whether Pipeline was in this category! When I look back at my vid notes I think they're missing an explanation of the specific shots I chose and what allusions I'm making, although it's never too late to add one, and perhaps the Geek Feminism timeline of incidents is really the database I'm illustrating anyway. I definitely learned from We Didn't Start the Fire, in particular being reassured that it would be okay if some audience members missed some references.

Re: Pipeline

[garrideb]

Although I see the Geek Feminism timeline of incidents is in your vid and in your vid notes, I'd never looked at the website before, and I can see how that might be the main database you were illustrating. What an interesting, depressing, and important website.

I love We Didn't Start the Fire too, and can see the influence!

[cyborganize]

Thanks so much for the shout-out, that is gratifying! "DNA of academic research projects," haha, too real. This is a very cool post.

I have a couple of other favorites with long accompanying project notes – runawaynun's Stamina and thingswithwings's The Price come to mind. Although I don't think these are visually dense in the same way, they do have posts that valuably index (Stamina) or thematically explicate (The Price) the vid, which maybe fits into a similar model where writing is "an essential part of the art." The Greatest is pretty database-y, and while The Price doesn't take that approach, the notes talk about how the source could have been almost anything. Obviously I take a particular delight in these sorts of projects!

[seekingferret]

Hmm... Yeah, "Stamina"'s an interesting case in that obviously you can just watch that vid with almost no sports knowledge and think "Wow, women's bodies doing awesome athletic things!" and enjoy it, but runawaynun's notes give you access to a whole historical narrative that the vid doesn't explicitly share, and which most people are only going to be able to natively access parts of. I'm a pretty big sports fan and I recognized perhaps a half of the moments in the "Stamina", and more than half the athletes, and I appreciated getting to learn about the people I didn't recognize but I don't know that I feel like learning about them changed the way I read that vid.

Whereas, and begging your pardon, knowing the limited amount I know about Wonder Woman (seen the movie, read a few comics), I found "Transmission" pretty transparent without your notes. So I think there's likely a continuum of accessibility in source-knowledge-intensive, visually dense vids.

[seekingferret]

Also, something I've been thinking about lately in terms of database-y vids is what gets left out of the database. I posted a multifandom vid I premiered at VVC last year (that was inspired by "Stamina"), my Jewish athletes vid Ein Hanamer, and almost instantly I got complaints about the athletes I didn't include- bironic talks a bunch about how anytime she makes a multifandom vid she knows people will ask why she didn't include X or Y, even if she posts explicit disclaimers explaining that she knows that there are things she could've included but didn't. But there will always be stuff that for one reason or another we can't include.

Your language of the 'database vid' kind of gives a clue to why this complaining happens. The more a vid resembles a database, I think, the more people will want it to encompass the complete underlying database, and the more work the associated post needs to do to fill in those necessary visual gaps.

on comprehensiveness

[brainwane]

I'd like to learn more about how vidders perceive and react to the pressure to be universally comprehensive in coverage; I'm writing a blog post about that kind of dynamic in how audiences, especially on the Internet, use "hey you forgot [x]" and what they mean by that and how we react. I found this Vividcon writeup -- further links would be welcome.

Re: on comprehensiveness

[seekingferret]

thingswithwings talks about it some in the reveal post on "Getting Bi". https://thingswithwings.dreamwidth.org/226829.html and particularly the thread starting with bironic's comments: https://thingswithwings.dreamwidth.org/226829.html?thread=6636301#cmt6636301

Re: on comprehensiveness

[brainwane]

Thanks! I also should have mentioned some of my earlier thinking on a related topic: "The Concision-Nuance Tradeoff In One-To-Many Documents".

Re: on comprehensiveness

[seekingferret]

Interesting!

Re: on comprehensiveness

[brainwane]

I've now posted Hey, You Left Something Out.

Re: on comprehensiveness

[seekingferret]

Cool!

(Interestingly, of the 2019 Wiscon premieres I've been able to see so far, I haven't seen any databasey vids.)