(no subject)
Jan. 11th, 2019 01:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seekingferretI promised to transcribe and post this when I got a chance, because I think it's a really interesting comment. It's Rabbi Dov Linzer speaking about Chullin Daf 41, which prohibits draining the blood of a shechita chullin into the sea and similar acts because it's chikuy haminim, acting in the manner of the heretics.
Transcribing an off the cuff spoken statement is hard and I will warrant that not every thing I transcribed is word for word, but it should cover the meaning of what he was saying.
Transcribing an off the cuff spoken statement is hard and I will warrant that not every thing I transcribed is word for word, but it should cover the meaning of what he was saying.
I will also say very quickly that it's quite fascinating today when you read some of the... within the last fifty years and even more so in the last ten years... some of the debates that go on within the Orthodox community, particularly the ones about egalitarian nature, inclusion of women, but there's other examples as well, you know, that even if it's halachically okay, the more traditionalists resist. One of the reasons might have to do with basic reasons that people that are traditionalist and resist feminism because of questions of women's roles and so on. But one of the reasons often stated explicitly they say is because they say that we're all becoming Conservative jews and one of the reasons to reject this is because it's a marker of Nonorthodox Judaism in their eyes. So sometimes the phrase that's actually used in these teshuvot about these things is that it's forbidden because this is chikuy haminim or chikuy hagoyim. Because it is mimicking what the non-jews do or mimicking what the apostates do, and by that they mean conservative jews, nonorthodox jews. I actually had somebody... When i do a kesuba for a wedding, and if the chassan and kallah want, and most of the time they do, ones that are coming to me at least, want the mother's name in the kesuba as well. So and so bat father and mother or so and so ben father and mother. So I had a Rabbi I was friendly with, pretty moderate guy. he called me and said I understand you include the mother's name in the kesubah, what's your basis for that. I said I don't think that's any different than including the family name, which is not originally in the Gemara, but it gives greater identification, so this also gives greater identification. I'm not not having the father's name. But I don't see what the problem is. I said, what do you think the problem is? He said I think it's a very serious question of chikuy haminim. You know, because Conservative Jews do it.
So that is, I find that deeply disturbing. On the one hand it's refreshing they're being honest about what their real concern is. You know, not halakha but that it feels too much like Conservative Judaism. But to take the issue going on here, about idolatry and certain kinds of actions, but all of a sudden abstract it and generalize it and apply it. It's disturbing but it's coming up more frequently around these issues. They're now prohibiting the permitted.
But I couldn't pass that phrase by without telling you it has contemporary import.
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-11 08:45 pm (UTC)(Fourteen years ago, I patterned part of my ketubah after a suggestion of R. Linzer's and stressed out our Conservative (and conservative) mesader kiddushin. Served him right for not looking closely enough at the text we'd emailed him months ahead... but chikuy haminim probably wasn't the issue.)
(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-11 11:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-12 01:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-12 02:08 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2019-01-12 01:34 am (UTC)