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Masechet Chullin Daf 73
Feb. 8th, 2019 10:27 amDaf 73
We established that
a)if you do shechita on the mother, the fetus inside is considered included in that shechita, and it's permitted to eat. And
b) if a limb from the fetus came out of the womb, it is not permitted to be eaten even if it returns to the womb And
c) if you reached inside and severed a limb from the fetus, and then shechted the mother, the mother's shechita includes both parts and they're both kosher to be eaten.
New case: Difficult birth, a limb comes out and is stuck, so you sever it to help make the birth easier and save the mother. But the mother is still in trouble, so you shecht the mother so at least you get to eat her. What is the status of the pre-severed limb?
Obviously it's not permitted to be eaten. But does the shechita still sort of count for it, so that it's kind of like a treifa, or does the shechita not count for it, so that it's a neveila? The difference is that a neveila is tamei and a treifa is not, or if it is, it's only a very minor tumah d'rabbanan in some cases.
Machlokess between Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis. Rabbi Meir says that as soon as you sever the limb, the connection to the mother is ended so the shechita doesn't count for it. The Rabbis point to the case c) I mentioned above, and say that maybe something similar happened and it's a treifa, not a neveila.
They then look at a similar case where Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis disagree, the hanging limb. This is a case where a limb has been partially severed (but not in a way that would make the animal a treifa). There's a d'rabbanan gezeira that if the animal dies naturally the limb is ever min hachai, it's somehow presumed to have separated halakhically during the dying process. But if you do shechita, there's a machlokess between Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis about its status that follows the same pattern as the case of the fetus's severed limb.
We established that
a)if you do shechita on the mother, the fetus inside is considered included in that shechita, and it's permitted to eat. And
b) if a limb from the fetus came out of the womb, it is not permitted to be eaten even if it returns to the womb And
c) if you reached inside and severed a limb from the fetus, and then shechted the mother, the mother's shechita includes both parts and they're both kosher to be eaten.
New case: Difficult birth, a limb comes out and is stuck, so you sever it to help make the birth easier and save the mother. But the mother is still in trouble, so you shecht the mother so at least you get to eat her. What is the status of the pre-severed limb?
Obviously it's not permitted to be eaten. But does the shechita still sort of count for it, so that it's kind of like a treifa, or does the shechita not count for it, so that it's a neveila? The difference is that a neveila is tamei and a treifa is not, or if it is, it's only a very minor tumah d'rabbanan in some cases.
Machlokess between Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis. Rabbi Meir says that as soon as you sever the limb, the connection to the mother is ended so the shechita doesn't count for it. The Rabbis point to the case c) I mentioned above, and say that maybe something similar happened and it's a treifa, not a neveila.
They then look at a similar case where Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis disagree, the hanging limb. This is a case where a limb has been partially severed (but not in a way that would make the animal a treifa). There's a d'rabbanan gezeira that if the animal dies naturally the limb is ever min hachai, it's somehow presumed to have separated halakhically during the dying process. But if you do shechita, there's a machlokess between Rabbi Meir and the Rabbis about its status that follows the same pattern as the case of the fetus's severed limb.