I find it interesting. I never mind arguing, even if we're never going to convince each other. I've gained a lot of clarity about the specifics of how I understand movie SHIELD from talking with you, and that clarity will certainly improve my fic, so I don't mind that we're at fundamental disagreement.
I thought XMFC's portrayal of Shaw was magnificent in its way, actually. I'm so used to seeing movie Nazis who pretend they're not really Nazis- the example I keep using is the Nazis in Indiana Jones, who have no connection whatsoever to the camps and who only affiliate themselves with the Nazi party because it lets them corruptly steal antiquities. The movies suggest they are evil, but it lets them get away with pretending they had nothing to do with the atrocities in Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen and the like. And it's not just limited to Indiana Jones. Most World War II movies do the same thing in some fashion.
Compare that to Shaw, a Nazi scientist who did things just as horrible as the things Nazi scientists really did, who we watch torture an 8 year old child's parents in front of him, and yet who tries to claim that he is not really a Nazi. And the movie doesn't let him get away with it! The movie lets Erik kill him with a Deutschmark, lets Eric declare to the world that this man is evil because of his affiliation with an evil system. Shaw dies protesting to the world that he is not really a Nazi, and everyone in the theater knows that this is hollow nonsense, because the movie was willing to let Erik call him out on it.
Compared to that, resorting to HYDRA just seems cowardly. Especially the moment where they try to make you think that Schmidt is worse than Hitler because Schmidt is targeting both New York and Berlin. Captain America essentially suggests that there is something admirable about Hitler's embrace of the nation-state.
If you want to watch comic book Nazis, cartoonish caricatures with giant robots and scifi weapons, watch the Aussie TV series Danger 5. It manages to pull it off with real Nazis and make them look genuinely evil while still being hilarious and exciting. HYDRA is nothing but a dangerous dodge.
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Date: 2012-05-31 03:05 pm (UTC)I thought XMFC's portrayal of Shaw was magnificent in its way, actually. I'm so used to seeing movie Nazis who pretend they're not really Nazis- the example I keep using is the Nazis in Indiana Jones, who have no connection whatsoever to the camps and who only affiliate themselves with the Nazi party because it lets them corruptly steal antiquities. The movies suggest they are evil, but it lets them get away with pretending they had nothing to do with the atrocities in Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen and the like. And it's not just limited to Indiana Jones. Most World War II movies do the same thing in some fashion.
Compare that to Shaw, a Nazi scientist who did things just as horrible as the things Nazi scientists really did, who we watch torture an 8 year old child's parents in front of him, and yet who tries to claim that he is not really a Nazi. And the movie doesn't let him get away with it! The movie lets Erik kill him with a Deutschmark, lets Eric declare to the world that this man is evil because of his affiliation with an evil system. Shaw dies protesting to the world that he is not really a Nazi, and everyone in the theater knows that this is hollow nonsense, because the movie was willing to let Erik call him out on it.
Compared to that, resorting to HYDRA just seems cowardly. Especially the moment where they try to make you think that Schmidt is worse than Hitler because Schmidt is targeting both New York and Berlin. Captain America essentially suggests that there is something admirable about Hitler's embrace of the nation-state.
If you want to watch comic book Nazis, cartoonish caricatures with giant robots and scifi weapons, watch the Aussie TV series Danger 5. It manages to pull it off with real Nazis and make them look genuinely evil while still being hilarious and exciting. HYDRA is nothing but a dangerous dodge.