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Masechet Chullin Daf 30 continued
Dec. 28th, 2018 02:10 pmDaf 30
I didn't get a chance to fully go through Daf 31 today, but will finish it tomorrow and write about both Daf 31 and 32. But at the start of his shiur on Daf 31, Rabbi Linzer discusses a point from the end of Daf 30.
'The dilemma shall stand unresolved' is a classic Talmudic rhetorical formula, called a Teiku. Some say Teiku is an acronym that means that when Eliyahu HaNavi returns as the forerunner of Moshiach, he will resolve the dilemma.
Anyway, Rabbi Linzer says this is a major machlokess between Rashi and Tosfos in the name of Rabbenu Tam (Rashi's grandson).
Rashi says that the meaning of Rav Pappa's dilemma is that if one has cut through a majority of the simanim properly and the animal would at this point be halachically shechted properly, but then the knife continues and he does one of the five pasulas (of which 'concealed', halada is merely emblematic), is it kosher?
The question is perhaps tied back to the question yesterday about whether shechita starts at the beginning of shechita or at the end of shechita. IF we say that shechita starts at the beginning of shechita, then as soon as the Rova has occurred, the animal is shechted and anything after is irrelevant! IF we say that shechita starts at the end of shechita, then the continuing motion that includes a pasula is considered as part of the act of shechita that has been completed and it makes the animal a neveilah.
Thus, since the question is a Teiku, Rashi's ruling is we must be machmir on this issue.
Tosfos bring down Rabbenu Tam saying that of course as soon as you have rova, the animal is shechted. Then what is the case we're talking about? According to Rabbenu Tam, the case of Rav Pappa's Teiku is a case where you properly shecht one siman, then you start a halada in between the simanim but you're able to correct the knife and complete shechita properly. This is in contrast to the classic halada where you start the knife behind or in between the simanim.
I didn't get a chance to fully go through Daf 31 today, but will finish it tomorrow and write about both Daf 31 and 32. But at the start of his shiur on Daf 31, Rabbi Linzer discusses a point from the end of Daf 30.
Rav Pappa raises a dilemma: If one concealed the knife in cutting the minority of the simanim and cut the majority of the simanim in the standard manner, what is the halakha? The Gemara concludes: The dilemma shall stand unresolved.
'The dilemma shall stand unresolved' is a classic Talmudic rhetorical formula, called a Teiku. Some say Teiku is an acronym that means that when Eliyahu HaNavi returns as the forerunner of Moshiach, he will resolve the dilemma.
Anyway, Rabbi Linzer says this is a major machlokess between Rashi and Tosfos in the name of Rabbenu Tam (Rashi's grandson).
Rashi says that the meaning of Rav Pappa's dilemma is that if one has cut through a majority of the simanim properly and the animal would at this point be halachically shechted properly, but then the knife continues and he does one of the five pasulas (of which 'concealed', halada is merely emblematic), is it kosher?
The question is perhaps tied back to the question yesterday about whether shechita starts at the beginning of shechita or at the end of shechita. IF we say that shechita starts at the beginning of shechita, then as soon as the Rova has occurred, the animal is shechted and anything after is irrelevant! IF we say that shechita starts at the end of shechita, then the continuing motion that includes a pasula is considered as part of the act of shechita that has been completed and it makes the animal a neveilah.
Thus, since the question is a Teiku, Rashi's ruling is we must be machmir on this issue.
Tosfos bring down Rabbenu Tam saying that of course as soon as you have rova, the animal is shechted. Then what is the case we're talking about? According to Rabbenu Tam, the case of Rav Pappa's Teiku is a case where you properly shecht one siman, then you start a halada in between the simanim but you're able to correct the knife and complete shechita properly. This is in contrast to the classic halada where you start the knife behind or in between the simanim.