Masechet Chullin Daf 19
Dec. 16th, 2018 10:30 pmDaf 19
We spend most of the daf on the same topic as yesterday, which is whether a shechita is kosher if it cuts above the One Ring to Rule them All (per![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
wendylove). What's strange about this is that the Gemara at the top of the daf says yes, the halacha is that we hold by Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus and say that even if it cuts into the 'helmet', another piece of cartilage above the Great Ring, it's still kosher.
And then the Gemara goes back to the other two opinions from the Mishna, the opinion of a group of unnamed Rabbis and the opinion of Rabbi Yosef ben Yehuda. The stricter opinions that we don't hold by. The Rabbis hold that shechitah cannot go above the Great Ring; Rabbi Yosef ben Yehuda holds that it can partially go above the Great Ring. The Gemara proceeds to spend most of the page arguing about the exact parameters of their rules. This might be because there were regional variation in the minhag, as I mentioned yesterday, so the stricter opinion still has some halachic validity. Or it might be that they're trying to understand by analyzing their argument how the principle of Rova, of majority, applies to the case of shechita, and looking at these two stricter opinions is more helpful because they provide a clearer case for this analysis.
There's a few ways you could approach Rova here, all with slightly different consequences. You could say that Rova doesn't apply to shechita at all. You need to cut the simanim entirely within the permissible zone, no exceptions, and you need to cut the simanim entirely. You could say that Rova applies in that you only need to cut through the simanim a majority of the way through, but your cut needs to be entirely within the permissible zone, or you could say that you only need to cut in the permissible zone for the majority of the cut, but you need to cut all the way through the simanim.
And to further complicate, the Gemara introduces the concept that the moment of death is when the trachea has been severed 51%, just over half of the way through. So now the question becomes: When we're applying the concept of Rova here, which Rova matters, the Rova at the moment of death, or Rova when shechita is completed, or both?
For example, imagine a shechita where the knife goes in for the first third through the Great Ring, then slides up and cuts the remainder above the Great ring. If you are interested in the overall Rova, then two thirds of the cut were above the Great Ring, so if you held by one of the opinions that shechita can't be above the Great Ring, you might invalidate. But if you are interested in the Rova at the moment of death, at the moment more than half of the cut was in the Great Ring, so you might say it was kosher.
We spend most of the daf on the same topic as yesterday, which is whether a shechita is kosher if it cuts above the One Ring to Rule them All (per
wendylove). What's strange about this is that the Gemara at the top of the daf says yes, the halacha is that we hold by Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus and say that even if it cuts into the 'helmet', another piece of cartilage above the Great Ring, it's still kosher.And then the Gemara goes back to the other two opinions from the Mishna, the opinion of a group of unnamed Rabbis and the opinion of Rabbi Yosef ben Yehuda. The stricter opinions that we don't hold by. The Rabbis hold that shechitah cannot go above the Great Ring; Rabbi Yosef ben Yehuda holds that it can partially go above the Great Ring. The Gemara proceeds to spend most of the page arguing about the exact parameters of their rules. This might be because there were regional variation in the minhag, as I mentioned yesterday, so the stricter opinion still has some halachic validity. Or it might be that they're trying to understand by analyzing their argument how the principle of Rova, of majority, applies to the case of shechita, and looking at these two stricter opinions is more helpful because they provide a clearer case for this analysis.
There's a few ways you could approach Rova here, all with slightly different consequences. You could say that Rova doesn't apply to shechita at all. You need to cut the simanim entirely within the permissible zone, no exceptions, and you need to cut the simanim entirely. You could say that Rova applies in that you only need to cut through the simanim a majority of the way through, but your cut needs to be entirely within the permissible zone, or you could say that you only need to cut in the permissible zone for the majority of the cut, but you need to cut all the way through the simanim.
And to further complicate, the Gemara introduces the concept that the moment of death is when the trachea has been severed 51%, just over half of the way through. So now the question becomes: When we're applying the concept of Rova here, which Rova matters, the Rova at the moment of death, or Rova when shechita is completed, or both?
For example, imagine a shechita where the knife goes in for the first third through the Great Ring, then slides up and cuts the remainder above the Great ring. If you are interested in the overall Rova, then two thirds of the cut were above the Great Ring, so if you held by one of the opinions that shechita can't be above the Great Ring, you might invalidate. But if you are interested in the Rova at the moment of death, at the moment more than half of the cut was in the Great Ring, so you might say it was kosher.